Chris Osman interview with Chris Kyle for SEALs book
/In October of 2002, Rear Adm. Harward deployed as Commander, Task Force 561 where he commanded Naval Special Warfare Task Group Central in Iraq. His forces included all the assets in the Naval Special Warfare inventory as well as forces from the Polish Grom, the UK Royal Marines, and the Kuwaiti Navy. His forces conducted Special Reconnaissance and Direct Action missions in the maritime environment and throughout Iraq. Rear Adm. Harward reported to the Executive Office of the President at the White House in August 2003. He served in the National Security Council staff as the Director of Strategy and Defense Issues where he crafted the National Security Presidential Directive (NSPD-41) on Maritime Security and the National Strategy for Maritime Security. Rear Adm. Harward’s portfolio included nuclear counterterrorism for which he implemented policies to prevent terrorist use of Weapons of Mass Destruction. In April 2005 Rear Adm. Harward was selected for promotion and assigned as a plankowner to the National Counterterrorism Center (NCTC) in Washington.[1]
Interview conducted by Chris Osman, co-author back when we were still friends before I expressed my displeasure with Kyle, Luttrell and Webb - you can buy the book here and it was the first and only book on the Teams in GWOT at the time. https://www.amazon.com/SEALs-Navys-Elite-Fighting-Force-ebook/dp/B01BY304PW?ref_=ast_author_dp
C: This is an interview with Kyle – he's going to be talking about his experience as a sniper. Mir you're a pussy. Alright so when did you join the Navy?
K: In February of '99
C: And, where'd you grow up at?
K: I grew up just south of Ft Worth, a small town called ......................
C: And what made you decide to join the Navy and become a SEAL?
K: I always wanted to be in military, and then, I was cowboying for a living, since I was 15, well raised on a ranch and then my dad told me I had to leave at 15 and find work elsewhere, so then -
C: Become a man, get out of the house?
K: Yeah, I almost joined the Marine corps, right out of high school, cause I thought they were the toughest at the time, and then somehow I decided not to – I wanted to go to college and party and have a good time and fuck as many chicks as I could so, being an ugly guy that didn't get as many chicks as I could but I got the beer down. But then I don't know, I went and rodeod. That's how I went to college- it was a rodeo scholarship – got busted up got pins in my arm. And come to find out I had an uncle who had, it was a little shady, don't know if he was actually a Team guy in Vietnam or if he was a riverboat driver, but he died out there and they were telling me all these stories about how Navy SEALs were the greatest thing ever and all this and I though alright and so I bought into the whole myth that we were the greatest ever, but actually I'm biased and believe it. But no then I decided I wanted to be a SEAL, went and they wouldn't take me cause of the pins in my arm, so then I kept working on ranches and actually ended up moving up to Colorado to work on this one ranch and was in town one day, ran into a recruiter and he said no it's common now, with the pins in your arm you can join.
C: And how old were you when you joined the Navy
K: 24
C: What did you think of boot camp?
K: I thought it was lame. I was prepared to get my ass beat and actually I got more out of shape in boot camp than I was when I went in.
C: So then in boot camp you took the screening to go to BUD/S?
K: Yes. (28:02)
C: And then after BUD/S? Well after boot camp did you go to A school?
K: I went to intelligence specialist cause I thought after I joined the Navy that I wanted to do something cool, and the Navy doesn't have a lot that's cool to offer so I thought I you know, intelligence specialist, like kind of be a half-assed spy maybe, you know still buying in, cause I didn't know anything about it so that's what I went to do, and came to find out that's one of the longer fucking A schools which is stupid.
C: How long is the A school?
K: 4 months it was right there at Dam Neck so being up there I got to see DevGru running around with all sorts of cool toys, maybe more interesting, but there I actually got into better shape. But there I had to do scruff duty. Cause back at the time they didn't have the instructors, enough for, they had to limit the guys coming into BUD/S and they had a scruff duty up at BUD/S which was full up, scruff duty at Little Creek was full and then the one up at -
C: And what's scruff duty?
K: Just where you're going to BUD/S but they don't have room for you yet in BUD/S.
C: In a class, right.
K: So you have to go somewhere and they just basically PT or whatever. And there are 3 main locations where you go to BUD/S and just sit there or Little Creek or back to boot camp but they were all full up cause at the time some of the guys wanted to try out, so they sent me to Tennessee, to Billington???
C: Yuck.
K: And then when I got there I was working for the detailers and I actually got screwed cause, you're a bitch boy for them and you answer the phones, and do all the paperwork and stuff and they didn't want to let me go so I ended up staying there for 8 months, so. But then they finally, the good thing was when I went in the detailer said hey if you make it through BUD/S, anyone coming from here, I'll write in your orders you can go to any Team you want to go to.
C: Nice
K: So I told him I said I want to go to SOCOM. it was right before Fox Force 21
C: Fox Force 5?
K: Yeah, so I told him I want Team 3, they're the Middle East platoon.
C: Nice. So then what BUD/S class were you in?
K: I started with 231, and then I perforated an ear drum and graduated with 233.
C: You graduated with Deets and Lutrell?
K: No they were in the prior class.
C: So you guys were there on the grinder at least together at BUD/S.
K: When I started in 231 Danny was there with me and Marcus, but then I got rolled out of the class.
C: Ok so then, from, obviously from BUD/S you went through jump school at Benning.
K: Right.
C: And then from there you came back and checked on Team 3.
K: SQT.
C: SQT first.
K: Yeah I was actually in the 2nd class of SQT. 2nd or 3rd class
C: Oh when they switched from STT to SQT.
K: Right
C: And how long is SQT?
K: 4 months. (25:12)
C: And then it's just, obviously, it's building on the skills and taking you from a basic guy from BUD/S and trying to, just a little more skilled on weapons and tactics and having all that. Did you do any cold weather training?
K: No
C: No cold weather training? And then you got your trident.
K: At the Team 6 months later.
C: So you still had to do an oral board.
K: Yes....... had to go to each department, had a little sign off list, a PQS??? list basically. Had to talk to each department head and once they felt they were comfortable and you knew it they would sign it off and then once you had them all signed off you go to the chief's board and then they drill the shit out of you.
C: Sweet. And now what platoon were you in?
K: Charlie.
C: Charlie platoon? Were you in Charlie platoon the whole time?
K: Until right now. I just got moved to Delta. When we got back from this one, all the Charlie platoon, we had all the experience. We'd been to SOCOM 3, 4 times in a row and no other platoon had done that so they split us up and dispersed us amongst all the other platoons.
C: And try to spread the knowledge a bit
K: They thought that would, cause we were the ............. platoon, the alpha males, and they thought that would bring the rest of them up, but when you put one or two guys from that platoon into the other platoon, it's just not enough to, so, you got the knowledge and experience but it didn't actually bring up the quality of the other platoons.
C: Now when you so when you were in your first platoon, did you go to sniper school in your first platoon?
K: Second. Well when I got back from my first tour then I went back. I was a 60 gunner in the first.
C: So you were a 60 gunner, did the full work up and then you deployed to the Middle East. Did you guys do any real world shit the first time you went over?
K: Yeah. Actually we set the record for the most PBS's or BBSS's. We had something like in a month and a half we took down 90 ships.
C: And what year was that?
K: That was 2001.
C: So it was right after 9/11?
K: Right. We were supposed to go to Afghanistan, we had Scott Banks and all those guys in there, and John... , they'd just gotten back from their tour of ........., and we were still the class 'c' or whatever ready to go.
C: C1.
K: Yeah C1 that's it. But uh, we were the platoon ready to go and other platoons had done the work up on Afghanistan went off so we were going to get sent right back out and that was great for me being the new guy just checking in and going right off to war. no work up or anything but then they decided to send the next platoon next in line, said that they were good enough so -
C: So where were you at on 9/11?
K: I was at my wife, she was my girlfriend at the time, at her house. I was sleeping, she got up and saw the first tower go down, told me about it and I was thinking ah fuck it, so then, kind of sunk it what happened, I got in time to see the second one and I thought, maybe I should check my phone. I turned my phone on, and I actually did get recalled. So -
C: Where were you at when you got recalled?
K: Long Beach.
C: And then you just got your shit and went back out on the Team like everybody else?
K: All my shit was at the Team so I just jetted down. And I actually got pulled over on the way in, told the cop what was going on and he gave me an escort. 110m/hr escort all the way down to – he gave me escort to the bridge but he wouldn't go into Coronado.
C: And he was Long Beach PD or highway patrol?
K: He was Sacramento PD.
C: Wow. Yeah I was in Marine scout sniper school on 9/11 like 2 days from graduation and then I got the phone call from up there and got all my shit and left the school and the students were just like what the fuck where are you going what's happening and I was like sorry can't talk about it and I never saw those guys again man. And it was funny because our platoon went back up to Pendleton to do the, just to re??? the m4s, just to make sure you know we were like oh this might be land warfare this might be... so we went up there just to do a couple IADs and stuff like that and the chief scout instructor met me on the range and gave me my diploma. While our platoon was in isolation I called him on my cell and I was like hey you guys got my diploma? So he drove down there and gave me my diploma. That was pretty cool. So you get recalled, and you're at the Team with me, and everybody's asshole to elbows and the cage is packed with all the stuff up and so then, our platoon went overseas, and when did you guys leave? What month did you deploy?
K: October.
C: And then you guys went over straight to?
K: We went over to .............................
C: And then you guys started doing the BBSS's
K: Right.
C: And in 4 weeks -
K: Well that's how many we took down in about 4 weeks.
C: That's what you were saying in 4 weeks it was over 90 ships?
K: Right
C: Which was more than anybody in history.
K: Right. Actually Travis Lightwood was there with me too. So, he was uh, we had, we actually had a platoon and a half go to Camp ...... and Travis' other half and his platoon went to Afghanistan
C: Ok.
K: So we thought we got jipped. But then it ended up turning out to be a good thing cause we got to do all that and then we were in the DPB platoon and we got to go into Iraq.
C: And how was that? That was before you went to sniper school or after you went to sniper school?
K: That was before.
C: So you guys went over the burn??? so to speak and that was 2000 and -
K: 2000
C: And you were in the DPV platoon
K: Right. The stuck in the mud platoon.
C: haha stuck in the mud
K: Cause we took down Alfaw and when there was a Marine 53 kilos when they dropped us off on the ramps, course our end tail being lit by a 21 yr old chick who doesn't know shit, we asked her they said hey that ground doesn't look like it can hold our DPVs. She said oh no it's good it's dry, of course we get there we drive off the ramp, all 4 of our DPVs get stuck cause it's mud and oil.
C: How deep was the mud when the ramp dropped? Or when you guys drove out how far did you guys sink?
K: We bottomed out.
C: You bottomed out?
K: Yeah.
C: That's deep mud dude.
K: And those DPVs are not 4 wheel drive and they're not set up with mudders or anything so yeah we got stuck and when they got stuck you know the 50 on top can only pivot so far, and our DPVs weren't even facing in the right direction cause we had to drive off and turn around so the 50 was useless. So we had to dismount the DPVs and get our, I had to pull my 60 off the back, the other guys had their M4s and then, the only thing on the DPV that was worth a shit was the, I even forget the name, Mark 19, on the navigators, cause that thing can pivot anywhere so you can shoot that so we got there and bullets ricocheting off our road cages and everything and we got into a fight there but -
C: It was Alfaw and was it a refinery or was it?
K: Yeah it was the actual station, I guess the refinery cause then they had the metering station down aways that another platoon hit, or 2 platoons hit, and then the, what was it, nabot and kabot? The SUV guys took those down.
C: That was SDD??? platoon that did the actual assault?
K: There was an SDD platoon and it might have been 123 platoon cause there was the two of them that took those down but yeah they got those and shot off a mark 5, shot off a 50 cal into one of them by accident.
C: Yeah I heard about that that right before the H hour everybody's like all stealthy and everyone's been practicing for months, the war's going to start here we go invading a country and some fucking jackass lights up a 50 cal.
K: Yeah. Right into the state, right into the napot yeah and all the guys thought they were getting shot at, cause there's no way our guys are gonna hit an AD into a fucking station here.
C: That must have scared the shit out of everybody.
K: Oh yeah everyone got their balls up, hair on the back of their neck stood up, of course then they found the explosives all over the place but the guys chickened out and didn't blow it up.
C: How come they didn't blow it up do you know?
K: They probably wanted to live. Just cause Saddam Hussein wanted them to sacrifice themselves to blow it up when we got there.
C: Gotcha. And they didn't want to do it.
K: No. They didn't want to do it.
C: So there was the whole napot and kapot were wired.
K: Right.
C: The whole everything was wired up right? So you guys were stuck in the mud, and so as soon as the helos took off you guys are taking fire.
K: Right. Well we started taking fire since we came across the ocean feet dry and our helo started doing evasive manoeuvers and you see the chains going off the back and you could see you know, tracers coming off, or I don't know if it was tracer just cause we had night vision on you could actually see the rounds then but you could see a few rounds coming off. You're never going to get, the helo never got shot, none of them I know of got shot. Then we all got dropped off there. Then, (15:35) they were expecting us to come in, they knew we were coming for that but they had dug in completely surrounding Alfaw. They thought we were coming from the outside, they had no idea we were going to land in the middle, so of course when we landed in the middle there were 16 of us in there, surrounded by about 300 dudes dug into the trenches.
C: And they just basically turned around and started shooting at you guys.
K: Right. But we had the A10s and some Hornets up there and they just devastated them.
C: So did you guys call in your own air support or did they tell you hey we see these guys in the perimeter, mark your position and we're just going to decimate everything outside that?
K: No we had air coming over with us. we had control of them. I guess they had CTT with us.
C: Yep combat controller.
K: Yeah he was doing it from the DPV calling in. He had control over one, Adam McKinney our com guy he had control over, he was controlling Spectre and the CTT guy had control over the A10s and the A18s???
C: So how many, with the after actions and all that, how many people do you think they killed?(14:30)
K: Over 300 guys, plus there was from the city of Alfaw there was armour going out that we never saw, that never made it to us.
C: Now what was the significance of that target? Alfaw?
K: They thought that they were going to light the world on fire...............
C: And that was the first coastal, so nabot and kabot are the 2 oil platforms for refueling and is that the first coastal target as far as oil and things like that, refinery in Iraq? (13:54)
K: It was the furthest one south. But it was nabot and kabot were the two largest oil platforms that Iraq had so they took that so they wouldn't spill into the ocean. There's a metering and manifold station that was on the coast that 2 other platoons took and they thought they were going to blow the pipes so it would just spill oil into the ocean and then we took it, the main place that was farther inland to keep just the oil fires from running.
C: And Alfaw is a-l-f-a-w. 300 guys huh?
K: And actually we had the video of our first platoon and you can, we're in the middle of a firefight, and then you can hear the brakes in between the bombs going off and you hear this one guy just screaming bloody murder and it goes on and on for about half an hour.
C: Hearing the guys are screaming as they're getting decimated.
K: Right so then the next day we go out -
C: Now how far are the impacts from you guys, like what's the closest that they were hitting guys?
K: Probably about 100 yds.
C: No shit.
K: But you know they were hitting them from as far out as 1000 yds too. So anytime that, I'm sure what it was was that as soon as they found out we had air support I'm sure a bunch of them were banging ass out of there and they were still just -
C: Laying waste.
K: Oh yeah they were getting it good.
C: So the next day you guys wake up, or not wake up but the sun comes up and you guys go out on foot patrol?
K: Well, the sun comes up and then what the deal was was that, it was the Brits came in, the royal Marines.
C: That was 42 commando?
K: I think it was.
C: It's either 41 or 42 commando.
K: I thought it was 40 or 42. It's probably 42 then. But yeah they came in, they took charge of it and there was a shit ton of them came in there.
C: Yeah I got a picture of you guys, I think you might even be in it, it's like all of Team 3's task unit and the Brits and your guys are all up in that bunker with all their flags.
K: Yeah.
C: Cool.
K: But there was more of them in there than what was in that picture.
C: They didn't want to jump in the picture?
K: No. Actually that was all of Team 3 that was taking down the whole deal, from the nabot and kabot and all that. But, yeah so they took over and then we patrolled out and we found the dude who had been screaming. What had happened is that the AC130 had shot his ass off and it took one whole ass cheek off and part of the one leg and he dragged himself 100 yards.
C: Screaming.
K: Screaming. So you could see blood trail we followed it all the way up until he finally bled out.
C: Damn.
K: Cause that was the only wound he had.
C: (laughing)
K: He finally bled out.
C: That's a slow painful death.
K: Oh yeah, that's why we figured that he was the one who was screaming.
C: So did you guys take pictures or videos of all the dead guys or what was left over basically ?
K: We have a few pictures of guys. We didn't know what was going to go on and also our CO said no cameras and of course we had them so. We didn't want to get caught so we didn't take a whole lot of pictures.
C: And that was uh Curtis at the time wasn't it? I won't even get into that
K: No
hahaha
C: So do you believe you're not the first one and you won't be the last dude. I actually changed some of the writing in the book to paint in a better light as far as the leadership goes cause everyone we talked to was either fucking bashing Curtis or bashing Harwood.
K: Oh they're both chicken shits. In fact the Marines brought them up on charges for cowardice in front of the enemy. The Brits even said that we were lions led by dogs because they would not turn us loose.
C: That's fucking ridiculous dude. Hey but you know what dude? One's got a star, the other one's going to be making fucking you know -
K: Admiral? One's already admiral, the other is still a captain.
C: You know he's going to make admiral dude.
K: Oh yeah.
C: So any other significant shit happen the whole time you were over there?
K: Well we were there at Nasiriyah when Jessica Lynch was there, and the Marines gave us a free fire zone they said here this is your sector, just go out, and anyone out there, any male, kill him. And then Curtis of course said no we can't do that you're not going out. So the Marines would come back by after they'd been in town drive by and say hey how many kills did you get today? Oh that's right y'all didn't go out.
C: So how did that make you feel? How was the morale?
K: Oh we were ready to shoot Curtis. If we had got into a firefight and he had been anywhere around he would not have made it out.
C: That's fucking ridiculous dude. So your platoon had the opportunity to participate in Jessica Lynch's rescue operation but he would not let you do it.
K: Right. We were going to be at ............ for the whole deal. But instead, instead of letting SEALs do it, Rangers came in. Of course. And they came in and got her but - (08:55)
C: That's fucking nuts dude. So any other crazy shit on that one or after that it was just putting up with Curtis' you know, why can't we do it and -
K: Yeah we had some SORs on the river make sure no suicide boats were going out, we got shot at by Iranians on a daily basis we weren't allowed to return fire.
C: So you guys are across the waterway looking at Iran?
K: Right.
C: And then, and what waterway was that?
K: I don't know if that was Euphrates, the Shatt al-Arab???
C: So you guys were out there doing SRs looking for suicide boat drivers, and why were the Iranians shooting at you?
K: Just cause we were in the old Iraqi border station that was up there that had been bombed. You know, you tell a couple DPVs to go set up a hide sight so it looks like a couple DPVs ....... so they knew we were there and we knew they were over there and they'd fire a couple of shots at us everyday, just to let us know that they were there watching us. (07:52)
C: Were they trying to hit you guys or were they just -
K: No I don't think they were so much trying to hit us, just intimidate us. But the whole thing, I'm getting shot at, I want to return fire, we were told no and then also it was probably a good thing cause you know they had the border position dialed in long before Americans came in, so they had mortars over there, rockets and everything. In fact the station that we took over we had to destroy a bunch of demo cause you know we found a shit ton of RPGs mortars and everything. So we set it all up, put some C4 on it and ..... and they blew it and they also called in an A Team...... bomb just in case there were some left.
C: Nice. And how was that?
K: It was good we got to see a good fireworks show.
C: Sweet. So that deployment's over, you guys, you come home and then during PRODEV you went through sniper school?
K: During my post deployment leave. (6:55)
C: So how long were you home before you went to sniper school?
K: A week. Because we got extended on that deployment cause of the war and everything. It was an 8 and a half month deployment.
C: So you were gone 8 and a half months you come back for 1 week. And did you go through Marine sniper school or SEAL Team sniper school?
K: The SEAL Team.
C: Now can you explain to me how long that school is total, you know with all the shit cause you go through pick, recon, and shooting and stalking.
K: Right it's 3 portions. You got your PICK which is all the camera and computer shit, and then you also do, the next one is SCOUT, which is basically your stalking, your field crafts, your hide sights everything. Then the last portion is called the sniper portion and basically you're shooting, you still have some stalks in there and field crafts, but it's not as intensive, it's mainly just your shooting. And it's about 3 month long school.
C: Total
K: Total
C: Ok now was all the shooting done at Calinga???? or did you go out to Indiana? (05:49)
K: No they had shut down Calinga cause of the valley fever. But the pick was all done.... stick, the elephant cages. Then the scalp (stalk) portion was at Pendleton, and it was right after the fire so it sucked. You had to crawl around and get pissed off at all these instructors who were like oh yeah you're not going to see where I'm coming from. Then Pendleton was also where we did our shooting too.
C: Up at the range at 117 or whatever it is?
K: 116. But then now right then they had moved it up to Pendleton, not for the shooting but the stalking portions........ but now we've combined the sniper portion of it with the East Coast and it's in Indiana
C: Y'all got some pics of a couple guys up there at school in Indiana so you know I've got pics with all the rifles lined up and stuff like that so, just trying to -
K: We got a brand new 300 now too, or a new mod, it's got an AI stalk on it with a folding stalk to it, which makes it very nice, it's still a 26” barrel but the next mod that comes out is going to be a 24” barrel with threaded suppressor. so
C: And I hear that socom right now is working on a new 338 round so you guys are going to switch from .... .............
K: Right. It's going to take place with the 300. It was going to be the 408 sitech??? but the sitech????? is made for a specific round and they cannot mass produce that round so we can't go with them. Which, I shot that gun and that gun is outstanding. (04:07) You can shoot it at 2500 yds, and it out shoots the 50.
C: That's fucking crazy.
K: The 338, it'll shoot about 2200.
C: Accurately 2200.............
K: Right.
C: So you go through sniper school and your second platoon is still in Charlie platoon?
K: Right.
C: And then you guys deploy from San Diego to -
K: Iraq.
C: Iraq. And this is the second time you been there.
K: Right.
C: And what year is this now?
K: This is '03 to '04 or '04 to '05.
C: Now what's your platoon's main, where did you guys go and where did you live out of, what camp?
K: RPC.
C: RPC, which is?
K: It's outside of Baghdad, it's, you know where Camp Victory and all those are? There was 3 big bases the only one of them is Camp Victory, but it's right outside of Baghdad. Inside RPC was a smaller base called Camp Jenny Posie??? It was named after one of the SEALs' daughter. Don't remember who it was but, that was also De Gram??? was there.
C: What did you think of De Gram? (2:46)
K: I loved him. I got sent overseas, I was sent a month early, because I was ..... most of my guys were going to do the PSD thing. Well actually my guys were going to paycom for the first 3 months and then ................ , and then they were going over to PSD. And this was when the Team 1 scandal went down and we had to deploy early.......
C: And what was the Team 1 scandal?
K: Where they were out on PI and got busted for all the drugs.
C: I'll leave that out. Mir you better leave that out goddamn it. I totally forgot about the fucking ....................
K: Yeah, so that's how we got shifted from our winter cycle over there to our summer cycles.
C: Nice. So you go in and now how long are you in Iraq before your platoon is out doing shit?
K: I'm in Iraq 4 months before my platoon comes in. I went a month before they deployed to paycom and I was a navigator for De Gram and a point man. De gram??? ........... and they were awesome, they didn't care, they would beat the shit out of those guys. (1:34)
C: Yeah cause they're not under the same we're scared of our fucking SEAL type shit and our own SEALs not going to burn us?
K: Oh they're doing great, and they are squared away. They're not, I mean, if you were going to put them up against a SEAL platoon, I think a SEAL platoon would still outdo them, but these guys I have no problem working with them. They were great.
C: Hey you got any pics.
K: I do.
C: So then you're working with them for months on end, and then the boys show up.
K: Actually de gram pulled out cause they cause they were all leaving Iraq, they weren't getting replaced. any more ..... They pull out, I'm sitting at RPC, my platoon shows up and somehow they decide that cause de gram is leaving they need a DA force. So my platoon gets to be the DA force so I just get to stay there, and then the other platoon, the 6th platoon went up to Baghdad to do the PSD. But actually before I had the opportunity to get up there, the assault on Fallujah lit off and they did a call for all SEAL snipers.
C:........................
K: We had already started to have a good name there, with our own sniper school and everything, cause they saw how tough it was cause they had the- next to BUD/S, military school with the highest attrition rate, the next one up is SEAL sniper school.
(pause)
51:30
C: Ok so, you roll into Fallujah, shit's going off the blackwater, contractors were fucking killed, and then the Marines were going to do the assault on Fallujah, they call up all SEAL snipers, and then the CO actually was not Curtis or fucking Howard and they're like, ok.
K: Right. Or it was actually just attached to the Marines and they were my boss. The CO had no control cause he released me to them.
C: So when you guys, what unit were you attached to when you went into Fallujah?
K: 3-1 and 3-5
C: So they're out of Camp Pendleton.
K: Right.
C: 3rd battalion 1st Marines and 3rd battalion 5th Marines. Do you know what company you were with or were you just with those 2 battalions?
K: With 3-5 I was with Lima and Kilo. We bounced around quite a bit,whoever needed, who thought they were in the worst spot would call for us to come over.
C: So now, shit kicks off, they get Fallujah, and how long were you planning with them?
K: One week is all the time we spent. We integrated with them, we're planning for it, getting our rounds put together, making sure our guns were good...... and then basically just making sure our gear was tight.
C: How many SEAL snipers went with the Marines? (50:02)
K: There were 3 different groups of us, and in each group there were 6 to 8 snipers.
K: Right. Cause the whole thing with Team 1 screwed up the cycle, Team 3 went out, Team 5 came out with us. Basically it was a Team 3, Team 5 deployment (49:40)
C:............................
K: Yes
C: Cause I've already talked to Spence too and he had some good stories too so it was awesome.
K: But it was basically Team 3 and one group and then Team 5 had a group, and the East Coast, Team 8, they didn't have enough to fill a group, and Team 3 had so many snipers, so I was actually attached to the Team 8 guys.
C: Nice dude. And what did you think about the Team 8 guys, were they good to go?
K: Awesome. Scott Humphreys, I don't know if you've heard of him, but he is a sniper from the East Coast that had a lot of experience prior to Fallujah, and I got to run with him and he's the guy I credit with teaching me everything I know. And he's actually just recently he went over to the dark side to the Dam Neck. But he's a great guy and he taught me a lot.
C: So, Fallujah kicks off, and the Marines just start fucking bombarding the tanks, they're going house to house, street to street the whole deal, and your guys main mission in life was to do sniper overwatch for them?
K: Right.
C: Now how long, so it starts at say, D day, X hour, how long before you guys are seeing enemy combatants and you start doing your thing?
K: First day. We take apartments that are about 800 yds outside the actual city of Fallujah. We took that down, we set up sniper hides there cause we weren't going into the actual city until the next day. So we start taking shots from there.
C: Before the Marines hit their first assault.
K: Right.
C: So the day before they actually hit it, you guys were already shooting at combatants.
K: Right.
C: What was that like dude?
K: It was, my first at being a sniper and being able to really use it and that was a nice feeling to know that you could be able to reach out, cause some of those guys were 1000 yds out there and to reach out with my 300 and some of the guys had their 50s up, and to reach out and touch them and not have to worry about them reaching you. Not to mention I'm surrounded by Marines.
C: Now that was the primary weapon that you took on this particular was the 300 one meg?
K: Well I took my 300 one meg and my SR, it's called a Mark 11 now, but through the most of the assault I had my SR. We had a Ranger, Ranger Malloy? He was with us, he was with my group, him and Knox Taylor, he was an LT up there and their only job was they had a Humvee, and they would run supplies to us, run us ammo, MREs, water, whatever we needed. And they also had our rifles, cause we only carried the one rifle, and they'd had our other rifles in the Humvee. That Ranger Malloy was awesome. He drove that Humvee, he knocked down walls, he found a little King Tut head he put on the front of the grill. And Knox Taylor he just wanted to get some action so he rode into it.
C: Nice. So those guys ferried supplies and anything else you guys- So how long did you stay in that urban hide?
K: Just one day. And then we broke out with the Marines the next morning.
C: And how many guys in that first op, well on that day, and that was the first time you got a confirmed kill.
K: Right. (46:23)
C: And that was the day you got your first kill, with a 300 one meg. It was just a guy standing there with a weapon, what did he have, an RPG? What was the scenario behind it? You come up on the glass, and you're scanning,
K: Right. I was looking into the city and I could see these guys with AKs and they now know that the Marines have taken that apartment complex. So they're starting to manoeuver back into the city more. But we had already had the call that, I forget who the first president of Iraq was, but he actually came out that day, flew out there, and it was funny cause I got to see some of my boys cause it was a PSD unit came out with him, Team 8 guys. and he came and said, hey, you see guys out there? We said, yeah. Well why aren't you shooting them? We said cause they're not shooting at me and I don't see weapons. He said no, they've been given 3 months to get out of town. Any military.... intel is to be shot.
C: And that was your standing ROE.
K: That was the ROE. So then we just started letting them fly. So we could see the guys with guns manoeuvering back farther into the city, trying to get further away from the Marines and probably trying to get into a stronghold somewhere to get set up.
C: Now how many guys do you think your sniper Team shot and killed that first day?
K: That day I was only attached to one other guy, he was an STB guy, Aaron XXXX – I've got a story on him, and you can publish it with his name-
C: Is he a turd or what?
K: Yes.
C: Is he STB Team 1?
K: Yes. At different times, 2 different times he ran.
C: Ran?
K: Ran. Away.
C: Like hiding.
K: Hide. It was me and him out front and we got into contact and he left me.
C:....................
K: That's what I thought it was but one went home and 2 stayed out to fight. (44:23)
C: Holy shit. So you guys were in an urban hide,
K: Here let me finish this cause it'll lead right into it. That day I got 3 and Aaron got 2 so we got 5 total that first day. The next morning we went in with the Marines put away 300 got our SRs and we started doing bounding overwatches, just going to the rooftops and watching as the Marines went down. We just had one street, 2 SEAL snipers were divvied up into each group, each group had a street. So we just watched over and we had Marine snipers with us too. We had one crew which was 4 guys and of the 4 guys, one is an actual sniper, the other 3 when they get home are going to sniper school but they pair them up with the snipers
C:.................
K: Right. So we have these guys which are awesome, one had a sniper rifle, the other three all had M4s, actually M16s. So we're doing this in the first week, it was awesome. Cause we'd be on the scope and the guys would come out wanting to shoot and everything. After that they knew the snipers were there, we actually found pamphlets that I actually picked up, and it was pamphlets the US dropped, it was saying, you know, it showed the picture of a sniper and it was saying the sniper's going to see you and on the backside showed an insurgent with cross hairs on his head.
C: Nice. (42:54)
K: I had it in my jacket and it went through the wash. I did lose it. So the first week the Marines would start with mortars and bombs and then the assault would go. And then at sundown we would stop. And we had a set point that we had to get to so all the Marines would stay online. So if we reached it by noon, we had to stay there. But actually we wouldn't cause we kept talking and we didn't want to jump streets so someone come in behind us. But uh -
C: So you guys would change buildings though. The Marines would be all set up and you would give them, hey we're leaving this building don't kill us we're coming out and then you guys would go-
K: To the building they were in.
C: To the building they were in, and then you'd set up and they would leave, collapse security and basically leave you guys there so the enemy thinks, Ok that building's empty nobody's there, basically scout snipers still in urban hide overwatching.
K: Right. We would pick out the buildings we wanted, we would take it, and then when the Marines got to the next building we want we'd get down and run down to them. And it was a kick ass week where I had to lose a lot of weight because it was just constant running and gunning. It was November but it was still warm out. The fourth week it finally got cold but for a while it was hot. But they would start with fires and then the assault would go and me and Aaron, we'd go out ahead of the Marines. We figured why sit behind, let's go out and that way hopefully we can see them try to manoeuver on the Marines before the Marines get there. Twice we'd go out, get contacted and of course you've got the walls with the gates, it's a little bit of room where you can suck in there by the gate, and 2 different times he took off running. So now I had to call the Marines to come up and get me.
C: Cause you were left up there taking rounds.
K: Right. All by myself. So the first time they sent a tank, and the second time they sent two Humvees.
C: So what did you tell him when you linked up again?
K: After that they split us. Because they knew I wanted to kill him. And also we were in a hide sight, not even a hide sight on top of a roof that had maybe a 4” lip on it, so we had no cover, and we were watching the Marines, we were down in front of them again, and we started taking sniper rounds over our heads. Someone was trying to ping us and as soon as the shot rang out we'd duck, but you duck and it's already too late. But then I kept telling them, it was at night, hey, look for the muzzle flash. Couldn't have never seen anything, we'd duck, we'd come back up, be scanning again, and I kept asking him do you see the muzzle flash do you see anything. No. I don't either. The third or fourth time I look at him and he's still got his head down. I said, have you even looked up since the first shot? He goes, no I could get killed up here. I said get the fuck down and send that Marine up here. He went down the Marine came up. We never did find the guy but he was such a chicken shit. He even said to the Marines when we were in one hide sight, cause it was at the very end of the assault, they set us up overwatching the river, make sure insurgents weren't coming, we were killing people every day and he said something to the Marines like this is stupid this isn't a soft mission.
C: What the fuck are you talking about?
K: Why is this not a soft mission? We're the front of the spear, the tip of the spear, we're out here before they even get to the Marines, this is soft.
C: Urban hide, fucking killing people? What the fuck's not soft about that?
K: So the Marines actually nicknamed him 'run-away XXXX'. Cause we got shot at, we got lit up by our Iraqi counterparts. EKC, cause they claim they didn't know we were in that hide sight. But they lit us up and he dove through that walkway up on the roof that goes down to the stairs? He dove through there and we're all just sitting there going what the fuck are you doing? We're on a roof that has a high wall, and those walls are basically bulletproof, those houses are like fortresses, and he dives through a fucking hole. So then all the Marines are laughing and that's when he got nicknamed 'run away Reed'. (38:33)
C: Jesus.
K: Actually you probably don't want to write about that, make SEALs look bad.
C: Did you hear that Mir you mother fucker? So the assault on Fallujah lasts -
K: 4 weeks.
C: And you guys were out the entire time.
K: The entire time in the same cammies.
C: Nice. You must have smelled when you got back.
K: Actually during that first week, the Marines were assaulting, I was down on the ground moving, and another group a street over had come into fire, and we got called over the radio hey there's men down, men down. So we said alright hey, so we manoeuvered on down, started getting our hide sight, went to where we thought the Marines were, got up on the roof and found some wounded Marines.
C: On top of the roof.
K: On top of the roof. So we got them off, me and, what was his name?
C: And were they helping themselves or were they just all fucked up?
K: They were basically all fucked up. They were scared shitless cause their corpsmen had been shot and one other guy had been shot.
C: So they were dead or just shot?
K: No they were dying.
C: Now did they get hit by mortar shells or did they just take small arms fire?
K: Small arms fire. So we carried them off the roof, me and this, I can't remember his name, he's a Teammate, he was corpsman and a sniper but we both carried them down, and -
C: How many guys did you carry down?
K: I carried one down, he carried the other one down, and then the other Marines followed us down. There were 6 of them up there, 2 of them shot, 4 of them were not. So we carried them downstairs, as soon as we got down we asked them hey, where did you take fire from? And they pointed to this one place across the street, so we figured ok, we're going to go up over here and they'll get some -
C: From a different building.
K: Right. So as we start to manoeuver, there was a Marine, in an alleyway, who, a frag came down and blew him up. And I don't even, it was just pure luck because, the alleyway I started to go down, then I just turned, just as the wall completely covered me, this blast went, and I could feel you know, shit blowing behind me, just this black smoke, and I could hear he's still in there so I just ran down -
C: Basically like, the fact that you just turned and he shot at you but he missed cause your face crossed the wall.
K: No it was the grenade (36:16). I had bolted down there with this corpsmen, and this guy's all fucked up but he's alive, so we drag him out, and then the corpsmen starts working on him cause Humvees are starting to roll up and they're the flat bed Humvee with the tall sides on them? So they were just washing up the blood coming up to take the wounded cause by this time we're taking some heavies on these Marines. So then we drag him out, the corpsman works on him, I decide to go down a different alleyway and I see a bunch of Marines on either side looking down the street. So I walked up to them and said hey what the fuck is going on across the street down there? They said no you got it wrong, it's in this house right here. Which it was, you figure an alley that's maybe 50 yds long, we're at one end, the house is on the other end right there on the corner on the same block that we're on though. Well ok let's go down and get them but we can't cause they're shooting PKC and all this and they're shooting down the alley at us. No one wanted to move. Well, come to find out right across that little alleyway there's 2 Marines pinned down with 2 reporters. So I said ok well hey let's at least go get those guys out. Talk to the Marines they're like yeah we're just going to run down and shoot. We don't care if we aim for anything we're just going to lay down cover fire. So the Marines are like yeah yeah no problem. So the first time we start to go there's a guy that steps out at the end of the alleyway with a PKC and just starts lighting us up. And it was just like in the movies, like Wyatt Earp, completely missed all of us and we gunned him down. Don't know how it happened, one of the guys actually had a hole through his cammies, in his leg, where it did not touch him. Completely Wyatt Earp style. So then we back off and get situated again and it's like alright, let's go. So I take off, go down there, and all these Marines are like get the fuck out of here and I'm just laying down fire. I have my SR. So I'm just laying it down as fast as I can doing line change??? with this heavy fucking rifle and all of a sudden I turn around and look and I'm the only one that ran down. All the other Marines, they're down there at the end of the alley, watching. So the 2 reporters get out of there, the 2 Marines come, and I don't know where this Marine learned this, but he came up, tapped me on the shoulder and said last man. So I was like, holy shit I'm working with a frog man, and just I looked, as I'm shooting, I looked over my left flank, and there's a Marine laying there on the ground that had been shot up. He'd been shot all through the legs. He was an officer. So I grab him and I'm dragging him as I'm trying to cradle my SR I'm still shooting to get him down to the end of the alleyway. After that whole deal the Marines put me in for a silver for it, and then they .... the Marine Corps, said yeah you're going to get a silver that was worth it and Stef? Bass was trying to promote it to make sure they weren't going to - but then eventually that new Commandant of the Marine Corps come in and he said none of my Marines got silvers so I'm not going to give it to a SEAL so I ended up getting a BV out of that deal. But because of that day I was soaked in blood from the Marines so the Marines actually gave me some Marine those digi??? cammies, so I was running around looking like a Marine.
C: Do you have pictures of when you were there in Fallujah and all that shit?
K: Yeah I do.
Blah blah borrowing picture disks and yammering on about luttrell. (32:25)
C: So the whole time that you're there in Fallujah, the 4 weeks, you finally got relieved, to go and chill out or -
K: Yeah well the first week like I said was all sniper. The second week they quit coming out so I gave a Marine sniper, who wasn't actually a sniper yet, I gave him my SR and took his 16. And there was a staff sergeant there, at this time I was an E5, he goes, I'll tell you what – I want you to take charge of my squad. So I was the point man, the breacher, and the haul boss for them, and during our little breaks or whatever I was running through CQC, teach them how to do room entries and everything. These guys were awesome. We ran out of demo to blow the doors in so I started using my loophole charges and block poppers, cutting them down as block poppers just to crack the door enough to kick it in. We even got a couple of kills with a Marine's 16, going into a house and the Marines got a bunch of kills going into the houses but we had guys in there, sat up on us, ran into Chechins and straight up chocolate chip cammies, black hawk gear, ready to fight.
((((((HAD PASSPORTS ON WERE IN SET UP IN A HOUSE)))))
C: So they were all wearing Black Hawk gear? Got any pictures of dead guys in Black Hawk gear?
K: No.
C: Dammit. I'd send that up to Black Hawk and say, here you go, this is what happens, fucking mass producing motherfuckers.
K: Yeah and then the second and third week I was doing that and then the fourth week is when they put me overwatching the river. Actually a funny story was a group of Tunisians trying to cross the river, broad daylight, there were 12 of them. So they got on these beach balls like you would see in San Diego.
C: And what river was it?
K: The Euphrates. Anyway it was red, yellow, blue, you know the big old beach balls you would see out here. These guys catch them, fully jacked up with all their gear and everything on, 4 guys per ball hanging on, swimming across the river. They have no idea we're in a sniper hide. So I get ..... I say hey, I've had my fun I want to get some shots. Here's the deal, we're going to shoot 3 of the balls, leave 1 untouched. So we watched these guys drown until they're fighting over the last ball.
C: Just fucking each other up in the water. (29:55)
K: Yeah. Finally I told them it was ok. I'm going to get on line, I'm going to shoot this last ball, you let them float around in the water for a little while and then you can pop them. So anyway, these Tunisians went all the way down to the bottom.
C: (laughing)
K: But that's what it was, it averaged out that I got 1 kill a day that last week in Fallujah just overwatching the river. And we got relieved by the Marines.
C: In that entire 4 weeks how many kills do you think you got?
K: 19.
C: Crazy dude.
K: Well it wasn't anything outstanding. There was a Marine who got 36 in one day when they first went into Fallujah on one street corner. (29:16) He got 36 kills.
C: Do you know what his name is?
K: No I don't, but I know he got a silver star out of it.
C: And he was with 3-1?
K: 3-1. It was 8 months prior to when we went in, he was there.
C: That's fucking crazy dude. So where'd you go after Fallujah?
K: I went back to RPC and about this time was when my guys were flying, whipping back in to Iraq. So I joined up to be just a DA force. Actually my sister platoon was trying to do some reshuffling because they'd been at paycom for a while and didn't want to get stuck with just PSD which I don't blame them. They were trying to even out some experience. So they sent me, to go do some PSD, so one of the guys could come over and do some DAs. So I did PSD for two weeks you know how those principles are, fucking stupid, don't tell you shit until the last minute (28:20). I was the advance at the Marine check point. They called up said, there's this many cars, and there's a Humvee in front and a Humvee behind the convoy. I said alright no problem. So they're blowing through, two ..... vehicles flying up behind at high speed so I told them, hey those two are not ours. I'll draw down on them, and if they keep coming y'all light them up. So they come closer, Marine Humvee pulls up, 50 cal on top, all the Marines walking loaded, I fired a shot into the radiator, they slam on the brakes and the Marines are pointing at them, they thought they'd turn around and get out of there. Come to find out there's 2 of the principles' base. So I got fired because he did not tell me that they were coming and that they were flying up behind my convoy. So I got fired trying to protect them but it worked out well cause when I got fired, they didn't want to send me back to do DAs cause they Army was screaming they needed snipers. So I went to Haifa Street do go do some more.
C: So you went back to work with the Army guys. Who were you attached to?
K: 82nd airborne.
C: 82nd airborne out of Ft Bragg. What did you think about those guys?
K: They were alright. Actually I was attached to a reserve unit out of Arkansas. And being from Texas, and I had 2 other SEAL buddies with me. Actually there was one, and then one officer Johnson was from the East Coast. But they would all come to me and say hey, can you translate what they're saying, cause these boys are straight up redneck hillbillies. And no joke, they did not have all their teeth, straight up reserves. But they were good, they were ready to get it. And that 82nd they were good boys too. Haifa Street was awesome, the Haifa Street in Baghdad, high rise apartment buildings, we go take one down and sit up there and the only thing you had to worry about then was, you know, your angle to make sure you're .... cause you're shooting from high elevation now. But it worked out great, I got a few kills out there and basically topped off my deployment. Then I went back to do a few DAs with the guys and went home. Actually they moved us out to Hobinea, we went out and set that place up, started doing some ... and a few DAs and came home.
C: So now you came home, this is going into your third platoon right? So how long were you home for your work up for your third platoon? (25:51)
K: Well it was the year turn around, so we, I was home maybe 2 months before we started right into it.
C: Yeah with PRODEV and ........
K: Well we actually didn't have PRODEV cause we had the condensed workup cause they were trying to get the Teams back onto their proper schedules. So they took away our PRODEV -
C: Wasn't that when they were pulling guys from Team 5 to augment 7 and all that crazy shit?
K: Yeah. So they said if you need school bad enough you can go to it during your workup. So it was basically, we got home, had our month of leave. Actually it was 2 weeks of leave cause we were trying to hurry up and get back overseas but also you ever heard of JINSA? Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs? It's a Jewish company or organization that is a strong supporter of the military and they have these things called the Grateful Nation Award, and every branch of the service gets to nominate one guy, and SOCOM does too. I got nominated for it, and Wilt Aldman??? got nominated for the Navy and I got it for SOCOM. They flew us out and I imagined it was Jews giving me money because I killed a bunch of savages so I love them. But they gave me $1500 and -
C: Where'd they fly you out to?
K: They flew me to Houston, for the first one to get the actual award, then to DC for the big dinner. General Pace was there, he was the guest speaker or whatever for that.
C: So you go on your second deployment, again with Charlie platoon?
K: Mmhmm. (24:02)
C: Team 3 and you fly from San Diego back to? Where'd you guys go?
K: Back to Iraq for the third one.
C: So how did you guys get there, you fly from San Diego to – (23:48)
K: This third one, my platoon left, I left a week later because my daughter was born. So I jumped on a civilian that flew to Germany and in Germany got on a military flight and came out.
C: And you flew into B-hop???, into Baghdad?
K: Yeah I did and actually they didn't have anything set up for me. Somehow the word did not get passed that I was coming in. They had the flight for me to get to bhop??? and that was it.
C: So there was nobody in the platoon to meet you or no shit like that?
K: Well my guys were in Ramadi. So I hooked up with an SF guy, they got me to the helo pad. Then I hooked up with a Ranger who was going to Ramadi too, and just listening to people talk about what they shouldn't be saying, I heard there was certain shit going on, there was a mortar Team and all this other stuff. So I jumped over to – I was trying to catch a helo to Alisade cause from there you can go anywhere. So there was a general who was talking about a mortar Team at Alisade So I walked up and said hey I need to go on this helo. And they turned around, so what makes you so important that some of my guys need to get bumped off? I said, and I had all my guns and everything, I'm a sniper and I'm supposed to go to Alisade and take out a mortar Team. Of course I was full of shit and I turned to my Ranger guy and said and this is another sniper, there's two of us going out. So he turns around and says here these guys get the first two seats. Get to Alisade and then I told the Ranger, hey come with me, we're going to the cash. So we go to the cash there, it was Bravo Med or something like that -
C: And what's the cash?
K: That's the medical center. So we hook up this little E3 Marine and we say hey dude, this is what I am, I'm a SEAL, he's a Ranger, we're trying to get to Ramadi and he goes oh. No helo for flying in there, except for medivacs. You just couldn't get into Ramadi. So I said well here, I'll give you coin, you medivac me into Ramadi. He goes ok. People never get medivac-ed to Ramadi, they get medivac-ed from Ramadi. So this guy he writes on our hands that we're returning to duty after being medivac-ed so we get a medivac chopper into Ramadi and then me and the Ranger split ways, he's still over there at Camp Ramadi and I go to, at that time it was Shark Base which was an attachment of Camp Ramadi but now it's called Camp Marc Lee. (21:22)
C: So were you over there when Marc Lee was a KAA or a Monsoon?????
K: I was already home when Monsoor got it. Cause that was the very last day of our deployment, they were jumping off planes the next day. (21:04) A group of us had already come home, trying to get things, I mean the platoon was in constant constant combat for the whole time we were over there. There was only a 5 day period where we weren't getting shot at and that's when we took time off cause Marc died.
C: So you get there, and you link up with the Platoon, and they were already out, every single night. This is when you were with ...... right, when he was platoon chief?
K: Right. Actually the platoon had taken off to Corregidor which is on the east side of Ramadi, cause they were supposed to be, they were going to do an assault on Ramadi like they did on Fallujah. So everybody's pulled over there, it was just me and two other Team guys at Camp Ramadi. So I was pissed off, I was like shit, I just missed the whole thing. So I went and sat on a guard tower one day just thinking I would get the lay of the land took a sniper rifle with me, I ended up getting 2 kills. And at this time no one had had any kills out there during this deployment. So they get the word at Corregidor and of course they go, oh fuck Chris is here. But it worked out great, the assault ended up not getting approved so they all came back and then we just started doing sniper watches, or overwatches. And it was awesome at first cause the Army owned the main part of Ramadi and the north portions were owned by the Marines who we'd go to and say hey where's your hottest spot? And then they'd point it out and say ok we're going in, will you come QF??? us if we need it? At first they were like, um, I'm not taking a tank down there. Well if we patrol 200 yds will you come pick us up there? Yeah. So we started doing that. And then we started having a lot of great success, and then the Army and the Marines both said, hey, we'll fucking come get you. Y'all are doing awesome. And then they started coming to us and saying hey, will you go here, will you go here. And we just had a great relationship with them. And in fact they decided they were going to start putting the COPs in Ramadi, and the first one was COP Falcon, and they came to us and said-
C: And what's COP?
K: Combat Out Post. Actually it was COP Myer?? so they came to us and said hey do you want a part of this and we said yeah, we'll go in before and secure it, and they thought we were just fucking crazy. So we'd go in the night before and secure the place that they wanted to make their COP and they'd come in early in the morning before the sun comes up and we'd do the high five and we'd bump off a couple of hundred yards to overwatch where they were building it up, so then they thought that was great and turned out to a great success and no one at the COP got shot at, cause we were shooting at one that was kind of close, cause they were manoeuvering on them.
C: During this third deployment is when you got the majority of your kills.
K: Yep
C: And it was during when they were building all these COPs and outposts and you guys were all in the city basically doing the overwatches? (18:03)
K: Right. But then it started to be where the General out there said, you are not going to put a COP in, unless the SEALs are there. They have to go in first. So then every COP that was put in, we'd go in the night before, take it down -
C: And what part of the city was this in?
K: It was all over the city. We did, the next one was on the west side right about 3-400 yds from the river there. I don't even know if that was the Tigris, the Euphrates or what it was, but it's that river right there by Ramadi on the west side. The Marines, the boat drivers, they're the ones that dropped us off and those guys are better than the SVU guys.
C: And they were Army guys or Marines?
K: Marines. And they inserted us completely quiet, no one knew we were there, we took it down. The next day all of a sudden the whole town is surprised to see the Army rolling in to set up a COP, cause it had already been secured. So we set them up that was on the west side, then we bumped in a little bit further east and set up another one, went up north, even went in for the Marines and put one in for them. It was a great great deployment.
C: So basically you guys go in, secure a building that they point out where they want to set up their COP. So this is all over Ramadi. So they come in, you guys secure it, basically take it down, call them back say ok everything's secure. They bring their troops in to occupy the building or the surrounding area, then you guys are bumping out to give them sniper overwatch so they could basically build their building in peace. That's fucking awesome dude.
K: It was great. It was a moneymaker. (16:08)
C: So how long were you doing that type of work? The rest of the deployment?
K: Well now, we only put, there were 5 or 6 COPs in, but after that, we would drive to COP Falcon, cause that was the only one you could really drive to, and then from there we would stage – there was a couple of houses in this complex, they gave us our own house, and we put 'SEAL house' spray painted all over it, and they helped us build shelves and cots and everything to make it our home and they would lock it up for us so no one else could get in. And we'd stage out of there and do foot patrol into the city to do sniper overwatches and we would just pick, where to we want to go? And we'd try to find where the most IADs were coming from and the most shots and we'd go set up there.
C: Now you guys would catch guys trying to do IADs and set shit up and you would just fucking lay waste.
K: We only caught a few guys setting up IADs. The most of our kills were either guys manoeuvering on the COP or shooting at us. Cause it got to be, if we took a place that was occupied, the rest of the city knew about it by 9, 10 o'clock and those people didn't come outside. They got to know, alright there's Americans in there. But usually by 9:30 or so we'd take our first shot anyway, so then they would know that alright, there's snipers out here. So then we would know that, alright, there's snipers out there. So we'd get into usually around an hour long firefight and then about 5 in the afternoon another firefight. It got to be where you could set your watch by it. You know you're going to shoot here and you're going to shoot again at this time. So you try to make your watch.......
C: So how long did it take the five COPs to get set up?
K: The whole deployment.
C: So about 6 months?
K: Right.
C: And how many kills do you think you got in that 6 months?
K: I got a lot. I have 137 in total including the 19 from Fallujah. The rest of them came from Ramadi.
C: Cause I heard it was triple digits like 200 plus.
K: No. 137 in total.
C: So there was 19 before you went in to set up the COPs. So it's 137 minus 19. That's a lot of dudes man!
K: And the gun I got it all with was my 300 1 meg. I know it's for urban sniping it's not preferred cause it's bolt action and most of the guys would take their SRs but most of the buildings we were taking, there was an opportunity to take a shot out to 1000 yds and I figured if I'm going to take a shot out to that distance, and an SR can reach out to 1100 but with a 300 1 meg I know I can drill them. So I aimed up and I still got a shot at 1600 yds. That was my furthest.
C: That's a long shot in an urban environment dude. It's a long shot period but in an urban environment it's insane.
K: Yeah. I only gut shot him though. I didn't hit him where I was trying to, I hit him a little lower.
C: It's what he gets anyway.
K: Oh he dropped so I know he died.
C: Do you know of any other sniper out there that has more kills than you.
K: No.
C: Even in Marine corps, Army, everybody?
K: Oh I don't know about that. Not that I know of.
C: But in SOCOM I don't think there's anybody.
K: No. They had a SOCOM historian come out to Ramadi because of what I was doing. Because he told me he was a Marine, the Marines sent him out just because I was making history.
C: So how do you feel about all that? (12:00)
K: I don't care if I break the record or if someone else beats me. I wish everybody could go up there and -
C: Shoot just as many as you?
K: Oh yeah. That would make me happy. And plus coming back home then you get all this attention. I would rather be the guy who didn't get the record and someone else get all the attention.
C: So when you came home and word had spread, and it did spread like fucking wildfire with you out there doing your business, what did they do, at the command, did you ever get your silver star?
K: I've got one silver right now.
C: How many bronze stars.
K: I'm supposed to be getting two more which will make 5.
C: So, one silver star, five bronze stars and zero purple hearts, which is good.
K: Yes that's the one I don't want.
C: That's a lot of stars.
K: Well Marcus and I had this thing where he told me, well you got a silver star so I'm going to have to outdo you, so he got the Navy Cross. I'm not willing to die to go get the medal of honor so.
C: So were you there when Marc Lee was killed?
K: Yeah I was standing right next to him.
C: Will you talk about that at all?
K: Yeah. Earlier in that day, we were taking down a block with the Army.
C: And what part of the city were you?
K: In Ramadi but it was real close to 20 Street which was the hottest street in Ramadi. We were standing on the roof doing overwatch, there was just 3 of us up there. It was Ryan Job was my 60 gunner running security for me. We were up watching the rest of our guys taking down the blocks with the Army and then all of a sudden a sniper shot rang out and we all went down to the ground and I looked around, saw Ryan on the ground and I said, hey get up fucking .... quit being lazy. So we get back up and he's still lying so I say hey Ryan, get the fuck back up you fat piece of shit, just cause he's a .... and that's how you talk to him. And then I go over there and find out he's been shot. He's the one got shot in the face and he's blinded now. I called in man down -
C: So he's blind in both eyes?
K: Well it shot the one eye up, it actually went through his 60, went in the side, by the action, came out between the butt stock and the actual receiver and then went into his right eye, the frag from the 60 and from his sunglasses severed the optic nerve in his left eye.
C: So he's blind in both eyes.
K: Both eyes. But the one that was -
C: He was just on TV recently with his wife.
K: The one eye that got shot out he now has an eye to put in there, he has a trident in it. He's great about it all, he's very upbeat, he's doing well.
C: Where's he living at?
K: Arizona. He's being taken care of. Actually it was his fiancée at the time so when he got home, we were so happy, she did marry him, and they are happy together, and they're living in Arizona, he's going to school, there's a Sentinels of Freedom or whatever taking care of him. Of course the platoons over here is still taking care of him up too, helping him out and whatever he needs.
C: So he goes down, he's fragged, is he saying anything at all or is he just laying there sucking it up?
K: He's just laying there trying to cough, because all the blood is filling his throat. So as soon as we sit him up he spits the blood out and he's not saying anything, he's just quiet, but you can hear him breathing and everything. So we carry him down a flight of stairs and he's a big guy, and the stairs out there are real narrow. So two guys trying to carry him down is kind of a hassle so he finally says, let go of me, I'll walk.
C: How long from the impact to his face, he cannot see, to where he's like, you know -
K: Actually at this time he could still see out of his left eye, because the swelling in his brain is what caused the fragments to sever the optical nerve.
C: From the time he got hit to where he said you know what dude I'll fucking walk, how long was that?
K: 3-5 minutes at the most. I kept his one arm over my shoulder just in case, cause he was losing a lot of blood. Went ahead and he walked on down and he walked straight up to the Bradley, they dropped ..., he got in there and that's when he went out from loss of blood and I'm sure some shock. That was the last time he saw anything.
C: Then you guys go back into the same building? (07:09)
K: We go in and everybody extracts back to the COP, cause the Army, we'd already finished ourn search and everything, this is at the end. We all go back to the COP. We're sitting there, all pissed, and some guys were crying and everything, cause we just lost one guy. We think he's going to die. He just got shot in the head. And then the chief comes up to tell me, he goes hey let's go get the fucker who did it. We got some intel of where the shot came from. So alright let's go. So we load up in three different Bradleys, we go in and hit the house and what they had done is just sucked us in. We went to the house and it was surrounded on three other sides. Soon as we went in we start taking fire, guys -
C: Taking fire from the outside.
K: Right.
C: So now you guys are pinned on three sides of this building.
K: Right. But the house still is not clear so it was just -
C: Fucking chaos.
K: No it wasn't. It was just second nature now. We'd been shot at every day, it didn't matter anymore. The guys still continued clearing the house, the guys stacked on the stairs, and as we started going up, there was a window behind our backs that looked down on us from the rooftop where there had been a guy that popped up with a PKC, and Marc Lee happened to see him, and just as he was raising his gun, and we figure he was starting to say something to warn us to watch our backs, he lit off one or two rounds and at that time a shot came in and went right through his mouth. That's why we think he was trying to say something to us cause it didn't hit any of his teeth, his mouth was open, went right through his mouth, hit his spine and killed him instantly.
C: So he just dropped and that was it.
K: He was dead before he hit the ground. But the guys in -
C: So he gets hit, and he hits the ground -
K: He hit the ground protecting us, cause we were not watching our backs and he was. But it was, everyone did as they were trained. Shot came in, guys kept going up, guys turned around, blasted him, and guys were stepping over his dead body. One corpsman stopped to watch him, the house got taken down and then it was ok, what do we do, let's take care of Marc. And we thought, after seeing Ryan, we thought this guy was going to live. At the time the corpsman had not told us that he was already dead. So we got him out of there, and then we got the guys who were shooting at us, gunned them down, and then we exfiltrated back to the COP, and that's when we got the word that Ryan's going to make it, Marc died.
C: And how'd you guys exfil? Did you call for a medivac?
K: Bradleys. Actually the Army,cause by this time we already had a tight friendship with them, when we went out, when everyone loaded up, there were 3 Bradleys and 2 Abrams that all went winchester on that city right after that happened. And when we left, I was looking out that portal on the back of the Bradley and the whole city was on fire, black smoke everywhere, dust all over the place. Those guys definitely took care of us.
C: They were all from the 82nd airborne?
K: No these guys were not. They were called Bulldog 173 or something like that. I don't even remember the unit.
C: But it definitely was Bulldog?
K: It was Bulldog was their call sign. These guys did it several times for us. When we first went in, (03:19) the guy who controlled the AO he's an Army captain, but he was their CO, he told us, cause he was tank commander, I don't care what y'all do, just call me one time, I want to use my main tank round. And he shot it 37 times when we left, so he got some action in out there, him personally, with his tank. But this guy -
C: But you just know them as Bulldog, you don't remember what specific unit or where they came from or anything?
K: I could find out but I don't remember off hand cause we always called them Bulldog and his name was Bajama??? And he was actually on, they interviewed him, I think it was Navy Times or Army Times, they interviewed him where he did an interview over Ramadi. But that guy was awesome, I mean we loved the Army guys we were working with. And then up to the north were the Marines 2-8 out of ........... But awesome, these guys would come in, if they heard us in a firefight they were on the radio, hey can we come can we come? We'd go no no, we'll tell you when we're not having fun anymore. After that whole little friendship was made we had to beat them to make them stay back at base.
C: After Marc was hit, how long did you guys stay in that building fighting and shooting into the surrounding buildings and all that?
K: It maybe lasted another 15-20 minutes.
C: That's a long firefight dude.
K: For out there that was a short one. We stayed in one for 4 hours one time. We lost that?? firefight.
C: So Team 3 Charlie platoon, known kills in a 6 month period is?
K: It's 300 and some-odd, I don't remember the exact number but it's over 300. Actually we looked at it and out of the whole theater since the time the war kicked off until we left, the SEALs have accounted for 25% of kills in Iraq.
C: Total?
K: Total
C: Did you hear that Mir? No fucking Army Rangers, bitch.
K: Yeah the Rangers were down the road from us back at camp and their snipers kept coming up to us saying hey hey let us go out with you. The only thing they were doing is they were blocking force for Dam Neck when they flew in. so they were wanting to come out with us and we were like hey yeah come on we can use all the snipers we can take.
C: So you guys were busier and got more kills than Dam Neck.
K: Oh yeah. I got more kills than Dam Neck combined.
C: In that 6 months or total so far?
K: Their total deployments to Iraq, I have more in that 6 month period than they did. But we did not have a good relationship with Dam Neck while we were out there.
C: Why's that?
K: Professional jealousy.
C: It won't go in the book. Fuck you Mir. I'm going to hit pause dude.
[1] http://www.navy.mil/navydata/bios/bio.asp?bioID=338 Page 2 of 2
